The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

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READ BEFORE VOTING Should the match carry on normally, or should Blade be disqualified?

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The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Evonex on Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:38 pm

This looks somewhat long, but I took the time to write it to be sure that a fair outcome is reached.  I’m asking that if you’re going to respond to this thread or leave a comment in the video that you spend the five minutes it will take to read this.

Pretty much the whole community knows about the issue going on between Zykru and Blade’s match by now.  To sum it up: Zykru went into the match never intending to finish the fight but to get Blade disqualified by recording Blade cross-mapping him through a non-crossmap click pattern (NCM for the rest of the thread).  This is exactly what happened, and after Zykru uploaded the video I said that, for the time being, Blade is disqualified.  However, I also admitted it is possible (although unlikely) that Blade knows something that essentially emulates what range, targeting, and cooldown hacks do (as well as what they look like on the other player’s screen) - so I said if Blade can replicate the NCM and still hit through it without any visible cheat engines and not on the CDN, then the match could continue (keep in mind, I did not ask Blade for an explanation - only a showcase of him repeating it with no visible cheat engine).  Blade uploaded exactly what I asked for (to his credit, I made him go through the process three times to get it exactly identical).  However, the video has since been deleted.  For uploading what I asked, I reinstated Blade in the tournament (once again: for the time being).  I said he was free to finish his match with Zykru (resuming from a score of 1-0 in Blade’s favor) if BOTH players recorded their screens with their mouses.

Since reinstating Blade, however, a player who is pretty open about the extensive use of hacks (not going to name that player, but I’m sure most of you know who I’m talking about anyways) has made me aware of an in-browser extension that would allow for this to be possible.  The in-browser app includes a targeting hack (different from range hacks) that would make it easy for Blade to do what he did.  I have also had multiple videos sent to me today of some of the best players (and most knowledgable about NCMs and how they work) failing to replicate what Blade did.  So, for now the match will be postponed - however neither player has been disqualified.

Also, a slight side-note, throughout this whole ordeal several people who have literally no clue what they’re talking about when it comes to NCMs call it a basic crossmap.  So, if you don’t know what you’re talking about - please don’t pretend to know.  To understand the point of Zykru’s original video it requires knowledge that not every player has, which is why I’m asking not to just throw shit into this if you really don’t know anything about it.


Up to this point I’ve had one half of the community constantly bitch at me for being biased towards OPness members by giving Zykru the win and the other half of the community bitch at me for being biased by allowing Blade in the tournament in the first place and for “listening to his bullshit” by allowing him a fair chance to regain entry to the tournament after Zykru’s original video.  Despite both halves of the community thinking I’m being biased towards the other half for either not disqualifying Blade or not giving him the win, I think I’m one of the only ones who would not succumb to one side and would go to this length to ensure a fair outcome and that the best player wins.

With the position I’m in, I’m not comfortable making a decision until at least 80% of the community agrees and understands why that decision is being made.

If you want my personal opinion on the matter - yes, I think Blade was hacking.  He’s a player with a history of hacking who, allegedly, just happens to have knowledge of a glitch that replicates the effect of those hacks despite nobody else knowing how to replicate what he was able to do without using hacks (and replicating it very easily with the use of hacks).  Going back to what I said earlier about people who might not be as knowledgeable about the game mechanics (specifically NCMs in this situation), it’s my opinion that a lot of these people fall to Blade’s claim that he is a “next-level” player that the community is somehow trying to suppress.  This sort of conspiracy rhetoric is wildly popular to the uninformed.  That being said, I still acknowledge that it is possible despite being very unlikely.  I’ve been wrong in the past and I’ve always admitted it so I’m not going to condemn Blade to being disqualified just because of what I believed coming into this situation.  I really do not care at all if anyone hacks outside of the tournament I just want to be sure the player who deserves to win this tournament is the one that does win.  To Blade and the people supporting him up to this point, I’m friends with a lot of you guys and you know that so the fact that I think Blade is still hacking is nothing personal at all. I'm giving Blade his fair chance as I would with anyone and I'm going to try to handle this in a way that the entire community agrees with what's being done.

       I’m not going to demand an explanation from Blade and say he’s disqualified unless he explains, in detail, why he was able to crossmap through this NCM despite nobody else being to without hacking - but that explanation would make this whole process much easier for everyone as it's now pretty much a matter of just that: explaining how it's possible without hacks.  I'm giving him an opportunity that's fair to everyone.

So, I want to hear what you guys think.  To sum it up:

-Zykru recorded Blade crossmapping through an NCM
-Blade recorded himself replicating this without a visible cheat engine
-None of the other top players I’ve spoken to today have been able to replicate it after trying and none of them can offer an explanation of how Blade did it without hacking
-There’s also an in-browser app that allows for range, targeting, and cooldown hacks which would allow for Blade to do what he did undetected



Leave your thoughts on the matter either on this forum or in the comments of the video linking to this thread.  There will be two polls (neither will objectively decide the outcome).  Obviously the one in this thread, but also Like the video if you think Blade should be disqualified, Dislike it if you think Blade should be reinstated and give an explanation for either response in the comments or in this thread.  Poll responses will not be counted unless a brief explanation is given (they will also not be counted if it's obvious the person didn't read this thread).  Again, the match is postponed until this is decided.



Also #HateCler2k16 #ClerIsToxic2016.
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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Dr Sin on Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:06 pm

This might end up being a long post, but sorry in advance.

I appreciate you being the middle man in this situation in order to make sure everyone makes a critical vote. My vote was to disqualify Blade, and I have multiple reasons why.

Most of my key points have already been mentioned in your thread, but I would like to elaborate.
1. The hacks can be accessed through a normal browser. I've had multiple friends or friends of friends talk about how these hacks arent some sort of Bot.exe that you have opened separately. This totally takes away the whole "If you aren't hacking record your screen" argument. Recording one's screen is not entirely a safeguard to proving yourself anymore is what I am trying to say. One of these friends who explained this happens to actually HAVE these hacks and ended up showing another friend of mine exactly how it worked. I am keeping names out of this because it's not really my right to reveal them.

2. Blade's history/reputation. We all know Blade is known for having hacks, plenty of proof such as Zykru's video have been uploaded. (Some unlisted). I don't want to start anything by saying this, but it is pretty clear how much Blade knows about game mechanics. For example, his defense in one of the comments of Zyk's video was something along the lines of "I teleported". Which does not explain the crossmap still. It was a last click trace and that in no way determines a crossmap. (I did a few 1v1s and made sure their last clicks were the same spot Blade teleported in, yet they could not hit through my Ncm.

3. He DELETED his proof. This could mean a lot of things. He could have removed as soon as Evo saw it, he could have unlisted the video for whatever reason, or back to my 1st statement he accidentally recorded whatever in-browser app he uses for AQW. (Usually shown on the browser toolbar). Either way, he unlisted the only video of proof he was willing to give which is altogether fishy.

Final Statements:
Okay so just to conclude all of this, right? With all due respect, there could be a VERY SLIGHT chance of information about NCMs that no one but Blade is aware of, but I just don't see how someone who studies this stuff almost every week missed it if it was just a simple top corner trace.
Glitches always have their counters. Blade's teleport is an example of an NCM counter in some ways, but the fact that he hit Zykru just proves of the hacks. NCMs can't be crossmapped, and that hasn't changed.

Anyway, my vote remains the same unless Blade himself explains (in full detail) EXACTLY what he did. My points still stand. To you Bladefire fans, let the big man speak for himself this time, you all sound foolish when talking about Mechanics.


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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Adeft on Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:12 pm

This ngga been xposed like 20 times and still doing the same sht. it doesnt matter d00d

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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Odism on Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:52 pm

There are two prevalent opinions on the matter.
Opinion #1: Blade is an experienced player who is extremely knowledgeable. This makes him do things that would otherwise seem impossible. However, all accusations of him hacking are from sore losers who just can't accept that he's a god and so they're just throwing dirt at the most advanced PvPer of our time. He simply knows more than the rest of us.
Opinion #2: Blade may be an old player, but what he did is impossible. NCMs cannot be cmapped. Blade may claim that he simply has more knowledge, but he hasn't demonstrated that this is true. If he really were that advanced with his knowledge, he would be able to explain exactly how it's possible to do what he did without hacks. But he hasn't been able to do that. The fact that he used a browser is not proof that he isn't hacking (because it is possible to hack on a browser), but the fact that he cmapped an NCM is proof that he IS hacking.

I hold opinion #2. While it is conceivable that he has more knowledge, he has failed to explain that knowledge. Moreover, nobody has been able to replicate what blade has done unless they were using hacks. Blade's only hope is to explain AND demonstrate the mechanisms behind how to hit an NCM without hacking. If his explanation does not require hacks and can be repeated consistently by other players, he will be able to prove that he is innocent. If he does not do this, then he has failed to prove that he is legitimate.
But let's face it, there is no current explanation for how to cmap an NCM without using hacks. However, it is possible to do everything blade does with hacks. So I have made my mind up, but you may decide for yourself. Which of the two is most likely: 1) Blade has unspecified, unverifiable knowledge that he can't explain and that nobody can replicate, or 2) Blade hacked and wasn't aware that he was falling into a trap when he hit through an NCM, so now he's just claiming to have more knowledge when the truth is he fell into a trap due to his ignorance about how the game works?

P.S.: As I mentioned before, just because he uses a browser doesn't prove anything. According to Kronez and a few other players, it is possible to hack while on a browser.

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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Evonex on Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:12 pm

Still waiting on an explanation, but as of now I've heard very little defense for Blade. I'll give it a few more days though. I don't see why an explanation should be difficult. He's excuse is "not wanting to give away play-style," but if he were to just give an explanation of how to do it it would pretty much assert that he's a legit player and cement him as the best pvper, really best ever. Also, going down the list of players who shared knowledge that helped them dominate despite the fact that it eventually evened the playing field:
-Wxo and Falcifer's war tactics
-Touben's hop healing
-Ryuzagetsu and Vonstoke's 2010 Warrior
-He Who Shall Not Be Named's 2010 DoomKnight
-Host's infinite Thin Air
-Velvex's infinite Breaker and quick heals
-Ras Luine and ranged abilities, wizard-based builds, and all the shit he did
-102 with corners
-Uyt and DKD's war tactics
-Sub and Odis with teleports

I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting, but you get the point. Even after the community caught on to what these players were doing before everyone else was, they were all able to stay ahead of the game and are all remembered as some of the best players ever - not as hackers. If Blade is really able to offer an explanation, I see absolutely no reason why he shouldn't give it and a lot of reasons why he should.
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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Cleric Shine on Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:13 pm

If you took a scenario where Blade is the world's nicest rainbow shitting Salvation Army care-bear who is hack free, and Zykru is El Chapo, you still have the raw case of Blade hitting past an anti-cmap.

Thus, the backgrounds of both players really don't mean jack in this case, and I don't know why you guys are looking at both player's PvP histories like this is some background check type shit for a 401k job at McDonalds

It's impossible to cmap/hit past a anti-cmap (if you couldn't tell from the fucking name). Even if there is a special ANCIENT CHINESE TECHNIQUE OF THE WEST TEMPLE to hit past antis, it's still just theory, and nothing has been widespread or proven about it.

Blade hit past an anti.
Impossible to do without any hack/aid to skill range.
Blade hacked.
Blade broke the rules.
Blade gets DQed.
End of story.


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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Noiro on Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:25 pm

-He Who Shall Not Be Named's 2010 DoomKnight wrote:

Still applies today, no one changed how it's played since and no one ever will because they don't know how to.

Anyways, I don't think Blade should be disqualified. Yes he is a known hacker and "le grandmaster of glitches", but for the actual challenge of having someone that can kick your ass should be enough to spare him, isn't that the point of a tournament, to see where your skill stands? But if you want an actual argument..

PvP as of now is handicapped. You have faggots out here abusing and naming glitches to sound cool and shit. What's wrong with having a couple of hacks thrown into the mix? Also, who says that beating someone who hacks is impossible? I'm sure you remember who spykke was, Evo and how we were able to kill him despite him being able to go back to full health every second without the use of a heal, potion or safezone. But this time, it's just a fucking "range hack".

I'd also be willing to debate that "crossmaps" are the same shit as "range hacks" because they end up with the same fucking result. I bet you people are going to defend "crossmaps" by saying it's counterable, but the same can be said to someone using range hacks. I'd also call you out on being a-okay with glitches in your tournament because it's the meta or whatever, but then everyone would be on their period.
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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by DKD on Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:43 pm

He Who Shall Not Be Named don't know shit about shit

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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Be Witch on Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:11 am

I can choose fast if someone admits if that guy is cheating or not. Also I/WE need a strong evidence about it because THIS issue will not be resolved if it keeps going on. #NoHate #WeNeedJustice What a Face cat
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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Tarkovsky on Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:21 am

Evonex wrote:Still waiting on an explanation, but as of now I've heard very little defense for Blade.  I'll give it a few more days though.  I don't see why an explanation should be difficult.  He's excuse is "not wanting to give away play-style," but if he were to just give an explanation of how to do it it would pretty much assert that he's a legit player and cement him as the best pvper, really best ever.  Also, going down the list of players who shared knowledge that helped them dominate despite the fact that it eventually evened the playing field:
-Wxo and Falcifer's war tactics
-Touben's hop healing
-Ryuzagetsu and Vonstoke's 2010 Warrior
-He Who Shall Not Be Named's 2010 DoomKnight
-Host's infinite Thin Air
-Velvex's infinite Breaker and quick heals
-Ras Luine and ranged abilities, wizard-based builds, and all the shit he did
-102 with corners
-Uyt and DKD's war tactics
-Sub and Odis with teleports

I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting, but you get the point.  Even after the community caught on to what these players were doing before everyone else was, they were all able to stay ahead of the game and are all remembered as some of the best players ever - not as hackers.  If Blade is really able to offer an explanation, I see absolutely no reason why he shouldn't give it and a lot of reasons why he should.
Maybe just let him explain to u and someone who doesnt pvp anymore like "He Who Shall Not Be Named's 2010 DoomKnight"?
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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by Evonex on Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:34 am

Tarkovsky, that's what this is all about. He was caught doing something that, up to this point, can only be replicated by other players if they're using hacks. I haven't disqualified him yet - I'm giving him his chance to explain, and so far he hasn't.
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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

Post by DKD on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:59 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeJZ1OU0MeE disqualify this man, making death threats.

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Re: The issue regarding Blade and Zykru's tournament match

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